I was reading my regular list of blogs this morning, and came across this post from one of my favourites. A couple more clicks and I was looking at a challenge from Jill Stanek. Considering this play on words is something that I've always found incredibly intriguing...I'm taking the challenge.
I have to admit, the pro-abortion side has an incredible knack for taking very positive words (like "choice" for example) and using them to mask the evils of what they are doing. I mean, come on, who wouldn't be all for giving a choice? We, as very individualistic Americans LOVE to have choices and free reign over all of them.
But what if the choice is to participate in murder? That's what it means in this whole abortion situation, does it not? After all, that's what abortion is, isn't it? The ending of a life of a child?
I can see why they had to replace "killing your child" with "choice.".....they just don't quite have the same ring to them....
So....I ask, if you are pro-choice - define CHOICE.
What is the CHOICE you speak of? The choice to do WHAT? The choice to have WHAT? A choice implies that you have to pick between two items/actions/um, things. What is this CHOICE you are advocating for?
To be continued......
The choice to have control over my own body and not let my healthcare be dictated by someone else's religion. Choice. I know most of your readers are Catholic so I will be the "evil" one here. Sorry- I'm an Episcopalian so the Pope and Catholic doctrine can't define "life" for me and shouldn't define it for the other women in this country. Make your own choices, everyone in this country is able to believe what they want, that's why it's a wonderful country, but you can't say your belief system must be law.
ReplyDeletejbmarino, who defines life? You say it's not me who defines it, but then how can it be you? Do you have the authority to define who is human and who is not? Tell me more about how that works. I'm seriously interested. Thanks!
DeleteAgain, just because I can't make sense of this: What do you mean when you say we are "able to believe what we want". So, if I believe that my child is a human, then she is, and if you believe that my child is not a human, then she is not? Or, if I believe that my husband needs to die, I can kill him because "I'm able to believe what I want" in this country? What if I tell you that my belief system holds that rape should be illegal. Would you say to me then, "You can't say that your belief system must be law"? I don't think you would.
DeleteSo, I am confused and need a lot of clarification on this. By the way, abortion is not a religious issue only. It is a human rights issue. That is why there are pro-life atheists and pro-life secularists, and yes, even pro-life Episcopalians. ;)
Here's my question: you defined the need for a choice, but not the definition of what choice we're talking about with regards to abortion.
DeleteThis country DOES provide the ability to choose your own healthcare - we do it every time we go to the doctor's office. Abortion isn't exactly healthcare.
I'd challenge you to define what the choice is (what my post asked for originally) and not the right to choose. What are you choosing between? A choice is picking one thing over another....what are we picking in this situation? What is the CHOICE you are advocating for?
Here's a definition of life- I do not believe that life begins at conception. That's my belief. Your belief system tells you it does. It's so typical of pro-"Life" (how's that for manipulation of a word?) to say that abortion is the same thing as murder of a human being. Choice allows us to make a decision regarding birth control and abortion based on our belief of when life starts. Don't tell me your religion should get to determine that. I know nothing i say will change what you believe and vice-versa so I'll make this my last post. But all I ask is that your belieefs stay away from choices women make about their body. Do whatever you would like, but don't force it onto others. This country was a very dangerous place when abortion was illegal, let's learn from our mistakes.
ReplyDeletejbmarino, actually it's science that says that a new human life is begun at conception. That is secular science. Do you not believe in science? Remember, Roe v. Wade was extraordinary in that it did not rely on modern scientific knowledge for when life begins, but went back to the ancient philosophers, who had never heard of an embryo or a sonogram, etc. Don't you think that is odd? If you are unsure about the science, here is a link to the textbooks on embryology and biology, regarding human life:
Deletehttp://www.abort73.com/abortion/medical_testimony/
Scroll down on that page for the quotes and textbooks.
Now, what is your source for determining when human life begins? Is it based on "personhood"? If so, that is a metaphysical (i.e., religious/spiritual/non-scientific) reason. Again, please stay with the conversation. What is the basis for your belief that someone else's human life is not "real"? Thanks!
http://littlecatholicbubble.blogspot.com/2011/06/sliding-scale-of-personhood-license-to.html
ReplyDeleteIt's just weird to me that when it comes to abortion, the pro-"choice" crowd runs away from science and gets all metaphysical on us.
ReplyDeleteI have a Master's Degree in the medical and my field husband is a family practice physician so if you think I am unaware and running away from science you are mistaken. For every article you post I can post one too. I am not going to get in a tit for tat kind of discussion. I don't think the pro-choice crowd runs away from science- they know that no matter what scientific evidence they give it will not sway you. The only reason I got into this discussion is because Heidi seemed to be asking a ligitimate question of the other side, it is obvious that nobody actually wants to hear the answer. (Sorry my original answer wasn't clear enough- the choice to continue a pregnancy or end it. Pretty straightforward.) The fact that she said "we" advocate killing and are doing evil certainly compelled me to make a statement too. In the end, I don't care if you think I'm an evil murderer. I believe in a woman's right to have birth control and use abortion if so choose and I think that certain religious groups' desire to run this country based on what their interpretation of God's word is is dangerous. Keep your beliefs out of other people's bodies. Please.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the response, J. I do appreciate you taking the time to come forward - this blog has gotten an extraordinary number of hits in the past 24 hours (way more than normal), but yet you were the only willing to take a stab at my question.
DeleteNow that we've gotten a clear answer: to end a pregnancy or continue it, we can move forward in the conversation.
If you could find and post the links to the studies that you mention that prove, scientifically, that a human life does not start with the rapidly dividing "ball of cells" I'd really appreciate it. You know that we (me and Mike) are also incredibly science minded, seeing as we're also in the medical field, and I'd be very interested to read that information.
And to be clear, this discussion is only about abortion. While I have very strong views regarding birth control, too (which most of you are aware of), we're specifically only talking about abortion here, to keep things simple.
I agree. I'd love to see the science that says that a new human life is NOT begun at conception. I remember my daughter's sixth grade secular science book stating: "You began life as a single cell." And of course, all the embryology textbooks. I am the daughter of a doctor and a nurse, so I am from science myself. Now that we have credentials out of the way, may I ask why you keep saying that abortion is a religious issue only? I have told you that there are pro-life atheists and pro-life agnostics and secularists. Why would they be pro-life, do you think? It's not for religious reasons, after all. Thanks!
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